Phoenix Fangirls

So today I had a really crazy headcanon about Kagome’s dad and then it turned into a full fic idea, whoops.

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.
People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.
He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.
People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?
His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?
Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.
And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.
And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.
I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.
Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.
I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.
I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.
Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.
There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  
It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.
Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  
I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.
I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  
Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

So then why did you tell me that you stopped watching it? And if you quit after the third season finale, you really should have clarified that.
Also I don’t need to reread the incorrect banter which completely disregards logic that you call valid points. You’re either choosing to ignore certain details or you’re just not paying that close attention to the show.
Or you’re so deeply rooted in your Hook hate that by the time he started making a change it was too late for you to accept anything other than hating him.

Because you asked me why I was watching it if I disliked it.  To which I replied, I stopped watching it because the writing suffered and I don’t have any interest in poorly-written shows.  The sloppy characterization of Hook, the rushed relationship with Emma, why on earth would I want to watch expansion of that in season 4 if they couldn’t manage a decent groundwork in season 2 or 3?
You do realize simply stating my points are “incorrect” and that they “disregard logic” doesn’t make it so.  Cite your sources, please.  
Actually, I loved Hook in the beginning.  I found him frightfully funny, I was eager to see how he’d play against the other characters, and particularly hopeful that I’d see lots of important character traits from the Peter Pan book.  Unfortunately, OUAT did not deliver.  He got progressively worse compounded with the fact that he went from a mediocre villain to a flimsy anti-hero with no more interesting motivations—within the span of only a few episodes.  Pathetic, sloppy, writing.  

To state one example, do you remember the episode where Pan tried to sway Hook to betray Emma and everybody while in Neverland, but he saved Charming anyway? That was a major turning point for his character.
He almost took Pan’s offer and that’s where his character development really took him from point A to point B. It’s also decidedly where he goes from just wanting to get into Emma’s pants to actually feeling something for her. Maybe not love quite yet, but it developed from there.
That may be only one point, but I feel like it’s the main one for Hook’s character.
I’d also like to throw out there that Emma isn’t over Bae. When she convinced Rumple not to bring him back and take being a hero away from him, it was obvious. In her facial expression alone.
I feel like you want them to hand you details and stuff on a silver platter so you don’t have to look between the lines, but other than with Snow and Charming (which it wouldn’t really work any other way for them) their style isn’t really to draw things out and shove it in your face. It’s much more subtle.

But it didn’t develop from there.  We went straight from wanting to get into Emma’s pants to “I haven’t felt this way about someone since my Milah”—it was a complete 180.  I could’ve bought that as an arc if it had been subtle, if it had taken a season or two to develop from there and build on that foundation, but NOPE we went straight into “I will win your heart” and Hook suddenly being in love with her because of one measly kiss.  That’s sloppy.  That doesn’t give me any basis for the ship aside from physical attraction.  
An in-character Emma would not be over Neal, yes.  Which is why I felt the kiss between Hook and Emma in the season finale was extremely out of character for Emma.
I don’t want details on a silver platter.  God knows, I’d kill for the subtlety Anna and Bates had in Downton Abbey or Inuyasha and Kagome in Inuyasha.  I want good writing.  I want a narrative and characterization that makes sense, that is built up, that isn’t based on physical chemistry and jump-cut writing.  Rumbelle was able to manage it, and I’m not even discussing my criticisms of how they were handled in season 3.  That is not too much to ask.
The problem is, A&E get an idea in their heads and they rush into it without considering how it affects the overall plot and characters.  They have terrible pacing and as soon as they get bored with an idea, they clumsily end it and move onto something shinier.  That’s not good story-telling.

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.

People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.

He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.

People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?

His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?

Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.

And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.

I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.

Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.

I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.

I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.

Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.

There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  

It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.

Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  

I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.

I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  

Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

So then why did you tell me that you stopped watching it? And if you quit after the third season finale, you really should have clarified that.

Also I don’t need to reread the incorrect banter which completely disregards logic that you call valid points. You’re either choosing to ignore certain details or you’re just not paying that close attention to the show.

Or you’re so deeply rooted in your Hook hate that by the time he started making a change it was too late for you to accept anything other than hating him.

Because you asked me why I was watching it if I disliked it.  To which I replied, I stopped watching it because the writing suffered and I don’t have any interest in poorly-written shows.  The sloppy characterization of Hook, the rushed relationship with Emma, why on earth would I want to watch expansion of that in season 4 if they couldn’t manage a decent groundwork in season 2 or 3?

You do realize simply stating my points are “incorrect” and that they “disregard logic” doesn’t make it so.  Cite your sources, please.  

Actually, I loved Hook in the beginning.  I found him frightfully funny, I was eager to see how he’d play against the other characters, and particularly hopeful that I’d see lots of important character traits from the Peter Pan book.  Unfortunately, OUAT did not deliver.  He got progressively worse compounded with the fact that he went from a mediocre villain to a flimsy anti-hero with no more interesting motivations—within the span of only a few episodes.  Pathetic, sloppy, writing.  

To state one example, do you remember the episode where Pan tried to sway Hook to betray Emma and everybody while in Neverland, but he saved Charming anyway? That was a major turning point for his character.

He almost took Pan’s offer and that’s where his character development really took him from point A to point B. It’s also decidedly where he goes from just wanting to get into Emma’s pants to actually feeling something for her. Maybe not love quite yet, but it developed from there.

That may be only one point, but I feel like it’s the main one for Hook’s character.

I’d also like to throw out there that Emma isn’t over Bae. When she convinced Rumple not to bring him back and take being a hero away from him, it was obvious. In her facial expression alone.

I feel like you want them to hand you details and stuff on a silver platter so you don’t have to look between the lines, but other than with Snow and Charming (which it wouldn’t really work any other way for them) their style isn’t really to draw things out and shove it in your face. It’s much more subtle.

But it didn’t develop from there.  We went straight from wanting to get into Emma’s pants to “I haven’t felt this way about someone since my Milah”—it was a complete 180.  I could’ve bought that as an arc if it had been subtle, if it had taken a season or two to develop from there and build on that foundation, but NOPE we went straight into “I will win your heart” and Hook suddenly being in love with her because of one measly kiss.  That’s sloppy.  That doesn’t give me any basis for the ship aside from physical attraction.  

An in-character Emma would not be over Neal, yes.  Which is why I felt the kiss between Hook and Emma in the season finale was extremely out of character for Emma.

I don’t want details on a silver platter.  God knows, I’d kill for the subtlety Anna and Bates had in Downton Abbey or Inuyasha and Kagome in Inuyasha.  I want good writing.  I want a narrative and characterization that makes sense, that is built up, that isn’t based on physical chemistry and jump-cut writing.  Rumbelle was able to manage it, and I’m not even discussing my criticisms of how they were handled in season 3.  That is not too much to ask.

The problem is, A&E get an idea in their heads and they rush into it without considering how it affects the overall plot and characters.  They have terrible pacing and as soon as they get bored with an idea, they clumsily end it and move onto something shinier.  That’s not good story-telling.

(Source: confessuponatime)

anonymousnerdgirl:

angelicbookworm:

emmasjones:

(x) already getting the oq and cs feels

I. Heart. Marian.

This is what I was wanting. Even if it doesn’t last, finally someone calls Regina out and looks at the people who’ve been woobying this abusive rapist murderer and says “What in the hell is wrong with you people?!”

Do I want Marian to stay this way? Absolutely. But I will accept this moment for now.

Why do they have to make the voice of fucking reason into someone that will be dismissed as bitchy and wrong?! She’s either going to end up joining everyone in kissing Regina’s ass or be some spastic bitch of a character when she is in all actuality right. Fucking writers!

I love how the writers are attempting to make me think Marian is in the wrong here but I’m just sitting here like, “Lol, Marian, you are boss. You do your character proud, girlfriend. You tell those townspeople.”

bookwyrmpendragon:

Don’t forget the entirety of the Weasley family being Catholic/Slytherin.

Somebody is seriously trolling.  I just want to go through all the reviewers and be like, “DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.”

bookwyrmpendragon:

Don’t forget the entirety of the Weasley family being Catholic/Slytherin.

Somebody is seriously trolling.  I just want to go through all the reviewers and be like, “DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.”

modernmayhem:

bookwyrmpendragon:

There is absolutely nothing I could say to properly explain this.
Read this: https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/1/Hogwarts-School-of-Prayer-and-Miracles
All the way through. Do it.

Oh my God, why are you reading that? How did you even FIND IT?

Why is Ron a Slytherin?  Why are Slytherins Catholic?  If Hermione is Dumbledore and McGonagall’s daughter, why is her last name Granger?
It’s like a train wreck I can’t look away.

modernmayhem:

bookwyrmpendragon:

There is absolutely nothing I could say to properly explain this.

Read this: https://m.fanfiction.net/s/10644439/1/Hogwarts-School-of-Prayer-and-Miracles

All the way through. Do it.

Oh my God, why are you reading that? How did you even FIND IT?

Why is Ron a Slytherin?  Why are Slytherins Catholic?  If Hermione is Dumbledore and McGonagall’s daughter, why is her last name Granger?

It’s like a train wreck I can’t look away.

sarafira:

sarafira:

My best friend and I both watch OUAT but she ships swanfire and I ship captain swan and we would have rousing shouting matches about which was better. Now I’ve won because captain swan is canon and neil is dead. Now with the new season approaching, I’m excited for captain swan…

Dear Phoenix,

Thank you for your very kindly worded message. The thought that this post might upset some people had not occurred to me, and I appreciate you pointing it out without devolving into name calling and insults. I will, in the future, be more careful with my tags.

Sarafira

mockeryd said: That girl trying to defend Hook is doing a horrible job. She just said "Of course he's an asshole, he's a pirate!"

She seems to think simply calling my points illogical and my episodic evidence “incorrect” somehow invalidates my arguments.  Very peculiar.

I ought to point her towards Calla’s great essay on the “reformed rake” trope, I found it deeply enlightening towards the appeal of Hook.

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.
People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.
He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.
People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?
His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?
Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.
And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.
And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.
I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.
Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.
I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.
I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.
Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.
There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  
It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.
Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  
I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.
I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  
Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

So then why did you tell me that you stopped watching it? And if you quit after the third season finale, you really should have clarified that.
Also I don’t need to reread the incorrect banter which completely disregards logic that you call valid points. You’re either choosing to ignore certain details or you’re just not paying that close attention to the show.
Or you’re so deeply rooted in your Hook hate that by the time he started making a change it was too late for you to accept anything other than hating him.

Because you asked me why I was watching it if I disliked it.  To which I replied, I stopped watching it because the writing suffered and I don’t have any interest in poorly-written shows.  The sloppy characterization of Hook, the rushed relationship with Emma, why on earth would I want to watch expansion of that in season 4 if they couldn’t manage a decent groundwork in season 2 or 3?
You do realize simply stating my points are “incorrect” and that they “disregard logic” doesn’t make it so.  Cite your sources, please.  
Actually, I loved Hook in the beginning.  I found him frightfully funny, I was eager to see how he’d play against the other characters, and particularly hopeful that I’d see lots of important character traits from the Peter Pan book.  Unfortunately, OUAT did not deliver.  He got progressively worse compounded with the fact that he went from a mediocre villain to a flimsy anti-hero with no more interesting motivations—within the span of only a few episodes.  Pathetic, sloppy, writing.  

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.

People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.

He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.

People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?

His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?

Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.

And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.

I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.

Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.

I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.

I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.

Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.

There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  

It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.

Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  

I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.

I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  

Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

So then why did you tell me that you stopped watching it? And if you quit after the third season finale, you really should have clarified that.

Also I don’t need to reread the incorrect banter which completely disregards logic that you call valid points. You’re either choosing to ignore certain details or you’re just not paying that close attention to the show.

Or you’re so deeply rooted in your Hook hate that by the time he started making a change it was too late for you to accept anything other than hating him.

Because you asked me why I was watching it if I disliked it.  To which I replied, I stopped watching it because the writing suffered and I don’t have any interest in poorly-written shows.  The sloppy characterization of Hook, the rushed relationship with Emma, why on earth would I want to watch expansion of that in season 4 if they couldn’t manage a decent groundwork in season 2 or 3?

You do realize simply stating my points are “incorrect” and that they “disregard logic” doesn’t make it so.  Cite your sources, please.  

Actually, I loved Hook in the beginning.  I found him frightfully funny, I was eager to see how he’d play against the other characters, and particularly hopeful that I’d see lots of important character traits from the Peter Pan book.  Unfortunately, OUAT did not deliver.  He got progressively worse compounded with the fact that he went from a mediocre villain to a flimsy anti-hero with no more interesting motivations—within the span of only a few episodes.  Pathetic, sloppy, writing.  

(Source: confessuponatime)

alwaysandforeverlovers:

That one time I was pretty sure he was actually making Caroline nervous.

alwaysandforeverlovers:

That one time I was pretty sure he was actually making Caroline nervous.

(Source: imyourguardianangelhesaid, via ravenclawslibrary)

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.
People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.
He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.
People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?
His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?
Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.
And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.
And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.
I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.
Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.
I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.
I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.
Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.
There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  
It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.
Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  
I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.
I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  
Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

amandasmouth:

phoenixwrites:

Yeeeeeep.

I completely disagree. Hook is beautifully written with a back story and good character development. He’s funny and brave. And he genuinely loves Emma and even little Henry.

People who don’t like Hook don’t dislike him because of him. They dislike him because the writers killed off Bae. And that’s sad. Bae dying sucked. A LOT. But to hate Hook for it is just immature.

Hook has had zero to no character development.  He went from locking Snow and Emma in an enchanted jail cell to rot, physically assaulting Belle, to suddenly being “a good guy” for absolutely no reason aside from an inexplicable feeling for Emma.  Which also had no lead-up.

He hasn’t known Emma long enough to really love her and considering he’s spent most of his life on a revenge quest for his former love—sorry, not buying that he’s suddenly “in love with Emma” within what, a week of knowing her?  Bullshit.  That’s rushed writing.  That’s bad writing.  And I guaranfuckingtee you, if he were played by an old, unattractive guy, Hook would not be thrust into a hastily rushed relationship with Emma nor would he be on a badly-written redemption arc.

People dislike Hook because he’s a shabbily written character, has had no resolution towards the terrible things he’s done, but is suddenly being thrust in the center light purely because he’s physically attractive and snarky and a shallow audience likes that.  .  

So going from being the asshole who locked up Snow and Emma and wanting to kill Rumple and really only being out for himself to a guy who is trying to be better (notice that he isn’t 100% just good yet because part of character development is developing) is not character development?

His back story about what went down with his brother in Neverland and the stuff with Rumple and Milah are not character development?

Character development, by definition, is “The process of creating a character’s background, physicality, appearance, and personality.” So please tell me how Hook does not have character development? Because I see a lot of it. Just because a character isn’t finished developing doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

And why is developing feelings for someone and wanting to make a change in yourself, for them, a bad thing? Love is often the thing that causes the change in people.

And no, he hasn’t known Emma very long, but that doesn’t mean he can’t feel love for her. The time span that he’s known her has been WAY longer than a week, just saying. And who are you to judge how quickly someone can fall in love? Some people don’t take much to fall in love. And whether its “love” or not, he is definitely fond of of the characters/people in Storybrooke.

I also wouldn’t say that its rushed. They may be already getting together at the end of the season 3 finale (that’s really not that rushed - rushed would’ve been her and Graham as an item), but that doesn’t mean there’s no more bumps in the road for them.Love stories that are mostly platonic save for hidden feelings all the way through and then end the moment they kiss for the first time suck. So, yeah. I’m happy they aren’t doing that.

Just because he’s fallen for someone new doesn’t mean he doesn’t still harbor feelings for Milah. Hell, those feelings might have been long gone to begin with and he didn’t realize that until he let go of his anger and need for revenge.

I’d like to point out that the love story is not the main plot of this show which usually means relationships don’t get very slow builds, Look at Snow and Charming, This is a world of fairytales. They don’t need a couple years to fall in love. That’s for shows like The Vampire Diaries where it is a love story more than anything else.

I would still love Hook even if he were older and not attractive. I like who he is. And beautifully written may be an exaggeration, but I think shabbily written is pretty harsh, given that the character is still in development.

Every time I see you post anything about OUAT, you’re saying something is horribly written. If that’s how you feel, why watch the show?

No, it’s not character development because doing a quick switch-over from being villainous for revenge’s sake to helping the good guys makes no narrative sense.  There was no leadup.  There was no reason for him to do so.  The Rumple and Milah backstory I buy—totally makes sense for a socipathic vengeance quest.  What I don’t buy is how quickly he abandoned it.

There is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone.  But if you’re painting it as the only reason you’re becoming good and also providing no buildup for that romance aside from physical chemistry, that’s sloppy, poor writing.  It’s not been developed.  If they wanted to do a truly believable Hook and Emma romance, they should start off by giving him a decent redemption arc, actually own up to the people he’s hurt—say, BELLE for instance.  They should also provide him MORE reasons to be a redeemable character than just getting into Emma’s pants.  

It is rushed because what, two days have passed since Emma lost Neal?  And the writers are expecting me to buy that she happily foregoes her vast issues with vulnerability for a crooked pirate she barely knows?  Once again, no goddamn leadup, no development on part of the relationship.  For Emma to form a relationship with anyone, let alone a romantic relationship, it takes time.  It takes space.  You can’t just shove them together in one episode and call it a day and then call it believable writing.

Because on OUAT every relationship—even the ones that start off quickly—are given plenty of development.  Snowing started off quickly, but we got tons of development for the two of them, tons of conflict, moments and fitting characterization to back up their romance.  Same with Rumbelle.  Not so with Captain Swan—they’ve had physical attraction and that is it.  It’s bad writing and I expect better.  I stand by the criticism, it’s shabby writing, it’s rushed and sloppy, and I know A&E can do better than that.  

I also expect a better romance for the lead character than a hastily written Jack Sparrow rip-off (seriously, OUAT’s Hook is nothing like Peter Pan’s Hook, and that’s a damn shame because I could’ve gotten behind that) particularly with a character that’s physically assaulted and stalked innocent characters (Belle and Archie) as well as made inappropriate sexual remarks to multiple people.  Fuck that shit.

I don’t watch the show anymore.  But as a fanfic writer and an ardent Swanfire shipper, I still participate in the fandom.  I still discuss the nuances of the show and criticize the direction it goes in because I loved this show, it had excellent writing in the beginning, and I’m pissed that the writing has gone so sour.  

I’m gonna leave it at this. The fact that you no longer watch the show invalidates everything you have said, which is too much to bother correcting. Because all you know is the snippets and shit that gets back to you from the Fandom which is probably just the people who hate Hook for stupid reasons. When you’ve watched yourself, and actually understand what’s going on, then come argue me down.

How exactly do I not know what’s going on?  I’ve seen every episode from season 1-3.  I have watched good character development and cringed through spectacularly sloppy and rushed characterization.  Because I got sick of the poor writing and because I have critiques of the writing, that somehow invalidates my opinion?  

Maybe you better reread what I wrote before you accuse me of not knowing or watching the show.  It’s because I loved the show and devotedly watched it that I’m critiquing it.

(Source: confessuponatime)